Leaders on Leadership featuring Dr. Richard Helldobler, President of William Paterson University

Episode Transcript

Jay Lemons:

Hello, and thank you for listening. I’m Jay Lemons. Welcome to Leaders on Leadership, brought to you by Academic Search and the American Academic Leadership Institute. The purpose of our podcast is to share the stories of the people and forces that have shaped leaders in higher ed, and to learn more about their thoughts on leadership in the academy.

I am truly delighted today to be joined by my colleague, Dr. Richard Helldobler. Rich is the 8th President of William Paterson University, located in Wayne, New Jersey, one of the state’s largest and most diverse public institutions. A first-generation college student of immigrant heritage, he grounds his work in serving students for whom education is a means of social mobility and economic progress. Rich took hold at William Paterson as their President in 2018, he has guided the institution through ambitious initiatives to expand access, to increase retention and completion, and make the university a more welcoming, equitable and inclusive place.

A champion for social mobility, Rich is overseeing national recognition for the university’s impact in this space, including rising into the top 5% on CollegeNET’s Social Mobility Index. He’s also led successful scholarship campaign that raised an additional $16 million for funding student scholarships, far surpassing its original goal. Rich is the recipient of the 2025 ACE Council of Fellows Mentor Award, and the 2024 ACE Reginald Wilson Diversity Leadership Award.

Beyond his role at William Paterson, Rich serves on numerous boards, including the New Jersey President’s Council Executive Board, the New Jersey Association of State Colleges and Universities, and the LGBTQ Leaders in Higher Education, where he is among those who have served as past president.

Before arriving at William Paterson, Rich held leadership roles at Northeastern Illinois University, Shepherd University, and California University of Pennsylvania. He earned his PhD in Theater and Master’s of Arts in Speech and Theater from Bowling Green State University, and a business administration degree in marketing from the University of Toledo.

Rich, it is just a great pleasure to have the opportunity to spend in your company and to share the fellowship of this time. So, thank you for joining us.

Richard Helldobler:

Thanks, Jay. It’s good to see you again.

Jay Lemons:

Always nice to see you, and always good to be in your presence because you are one of those people who I served with a board chair who lived in your neck of the woods. He was the CEO of Prudential, a man named John Strangfeld, and John had this sort of red dot and green dot theory. Green dots being those people who bring energy and light to rooms and challenges that we face, and red dots, well, not so much, being those people who might suck the energy out of a room or out of any conversation. Thank you for being a green dot, and for being with us.

Richard Helldobler:

Thank you very much. I’m delighted and honored to have been asked.

Jay Lemons:

I think we don’t spend enough time getting to know and understand one another’s stories, and I think there’s something powerful about the different pathways that bring people into leadership. And I want to just invite you in this moment to share your story with our listeners and to talk about some of the people, events, and opportunities that really helped to create and forge you into the person and leader that you’ve become in your journey as it has unfolded in higher education. Let me just open it up there.

Richard Helldobler:

Sure. Well, I always think it’s interesting that I say this to folks who are thinking about the presidency and we see all the surveys that are coming out that are saying fewer and fewer provosts are interested in becoming presidents. And I think one of the challenges is, to your point, is that when we go to national conferences, most of the panels that are focused on the presidency usually involve challenges or problems, and it’s very rare that we sort of get to hear the stories behind the people doing the work or the joy that this work brings. So, I’m thrilled to sort of have the opportunity to talk about that.

But I always say that I started life as a professional ballet dancer, that’s really where I started. So I was a dancer who kept tripping into administrative opportunities. It wasn’t necessarily intentional on my point until I became a dean. And when I was a dean, which is an interesting story, we had a new president who wanted to split a college of arts and sciences, and have a college of science and technology and a college of liberal arts, and the sitting dean was a chemist, so he was going to go to the new college. And so I was the oldest serving chair at that point. So they asked me to be the interim dean and I reluctantly did it, saying that I would do it for a year. And my sole two responsibilities were to run the search for the new dean and develop a strategic plan to hand to the new dean. And six months later, they asked me to be the dean.

So I thought, well, I can do it. I always have my ability to go back to the faculty, why not really give it a try? And then I sort of figured out that the whole notion of how to lead teams and how to inspire people was very similar to inspiring artists and inspiring designers to come to some cohesive vision of a production. So I would say that I reluctantly stepped into administration, but quickly fell in love with it.

And then I had the opportunity to be nominated and accepted to be an American Council on Education fellow. And that really gave me insight to the presidency in ways that I thought it could be interesting. But back then it was 2005, 2006, and I’ll never forget in my interview, the then director of the program pulled me aside and said, “While it’s not impossible, it’s not probable that you’ll be a university president. Most boards of trustees won’t hire an openly gay president. There’s one in the country, that’s Chuck Middleton.” So I thought, well, okay, if there’s one, there could be two. So off I went and did the fellowship, and then went back to my home institution, which was California University of Pennsylvania at the time, is now part of PennWest, which is the merger that happened in the PASSHE system, and became associate provost, and did that for a little while.

And then left there to go to Shepherd University in West Virginia, which is a non-collective bargaining unit, a non-collective bargaining state. And that really was for me, an eye-opener in terms of changes in institutional culture, changes in state politics. And then I realized quickly that if I wanted to be a president in an urban or a metropolitan adjacent area, which is really what I wanted to do, I had to make a lateral move. And I did that and went to Northeastern Illinois University, where I served as provost and then interim president. And there, the agreement I had with the board was that when they began to search, I began to search. So when they began their presidential search, which was right in the middle of the Rauner budget crisis, if you remember that, but there was no state budget in Illinois for two years.

Jay Lemons:

I do.

Richard Helldobler:

It was interesting times.

Jay Lemons:

Oh, horrible, yeah.

Richard Helldobler:

I applied to be the president here at William Paterson and got the appointment in March and then withdrew from Northeastern, and then I’ve been here ever since. But it’s been interesting. I feel like just when you think there can’t be one more challenge, surprise, never say never in higher ed, of course we had the Rauner budget crisis we had. Then I came here and then there was COVID, and now of course what’s happening at the federal level presents its own sort of challenges. But you can look at the challenges. I always try to find the opportunity in the chaos and that I think has been one of the drivers that has kept me going. And I keep saying I’ll do this work as long as it’s interesting and it’s never boring. Sometimes I would prefer a different kind of interesting, but the interesting you get is what you get.

So I would say that for me, I’ve had a very traditional ascension to the presidency on the academic side of the house, but the experiences that have shaped me have certainly been both, I think the fellowship in particular, but also sort of living through those significant challenges of no state funding for two years, COVID. And we’ll see how I bear on some of the current challenges that we’re facing.

Jay Lemons:

Thank you for sharing. A couple of follow-up points. Who did you serve your ACE fellowship year with? Who was your mentor?

Richard Helldobler:

That’s interesting, so I decided for my fellowship to do something completely different. I had been in rural public for all of my academic career, so I did private urban, and I did it at Point Park University. And what was interesting about that is the first day of my fellowship, the president went on sabbatical, never to return, and so it was an interesting experience. I had called the director and said, “I need to change institutions,” and she said, “No, stay. It’ll be fascinating to sort of watch what happens.”

And it was interesting to watch what happened, because they appointed the CFO who was the former budget director of the city of Pittsburgh, as the president. So when he and I had our first meeting, he said, “Here’s the deal.” He said, “I didn’t really want you here.” That was the previous president, “but if you’ll teach me everything you know about academics, I’ll teach you everything I know about finance.” And I said, “Okay, deal,” but that meant that I had to find presidential mentorship elsewhere. Now, luckily for me, I was in Pittsburgh and there’s a plethora of higher ed institutions in Pittsburgh, but all of them were so gracious. Nordenberg was at Pitt at the time, he was great. Cohon was at CMU and he was great. Chatham was great, Duquesne was great. So much that I had a variety of presidential mentorships within that space, all because the president that I was going to work with left the institution.

So for me, I try to tell fellows when they’re thinking about it is that part of it is directed learning and part of it you have to self-direct. And I had to self-direct how I was going to get presidential mentorship. But in the end, I think it really gave me a closer insight to different styles of leadership and different approaches to leadership that I think really benefited me, because you think, you look at all these different people who are tremendously successful at it, but they have a different skillset that their particular institution needs. And you take what aligns with you and discard what doesn’t, and then figure out how to apply it to the institution that you’re currently working with. So for me, it was scary in the beginning, but I think in the end it was very beneficial for me.

Jay Lemons:

I think that’s a hugely valuable insight, and clearly reflects that special quality you have of trying to see opportunity in the midst of chaos, the crisis. So, that’s really consistent. And by the way, I’m just guessing that probably had to be… Well, I know that you’re talking about Paul Hennigan, was the brand new president. It sort of worked out just fine for he and Point Park, a very long career that he had there after that. So, wow.

Richard Helldobler:

Yeah, he did, he had a really great long career there. And the institution I guess is still doing well. And of course, they’re known for the performing arts, which is my background. So it was one of the reasons why I wanted to go.

Jay Lemons:

A perfect fit.

Richard Helldobler:

Yeah, it was really quite an interesting time, and I’m still in contact with many of the people that mentored me during that fellowship. Based on the quality of my questions or lack of quality of questions, the director said, “You need to go and learn about athletics, and this falls into the category of you don’t know what you don’t know.” So I thought, oh, come on, openly gay man with a PhD in theater, I have absolutely no desire to touch athletics. But off I went, dutiful, and I knocked on the door of the then Athletic Director, Dr. Karen Weaver, and she took me under her wing and taught me everything I knew about athletics. And now she’s writing for Forbes on collegiate athletics, and she’s one of really the preeminent scholars on collegiate athletics. But then what was interesting is that my next job, which was Shepherd, I spent 60% of my time cleaning up athletics when I got there. So again, you just don’t know what you don’t know. So when people tell you, listen.

Jay Lemons:

I love that. I will tell you that once upon a time, I thought I had just come out of a very, very difficult time at the University of Virginia where we had the very first ever rules violation sort of in the modern history of the university. And I thought when I was going to UVA Wise, oh, it’ll be a small college, there won’t be all this time in athletics. Well, I got there, it was the second year they had fielded the sport of football and there was some divisiveness, I’ll just put it this way. Now, no one can look back, but I spent a lot of time on athletics in a way that I never thought. So again, that just really resonates and I think is such good advice. Learn what you can, where you are.

So I want to go back just, we’ll advance the script here in a moment, but where’d you grow up? Tell us a little bit more than you’re a first generation student and the product of immigrant parents.

Richard Helldobler:

Yeah. So I grew up in Toledo, Ohio. As I mentioned, neither one of my parents went to college. My father didn’t graduate high school. And so for me, I’m the youngest of four and I’m the youngest by 11 years, so I’m almost a second family. So my parents decided that they weren’t going to let me go to the public high school because they thought it was too rough. So I went to Cardinal Stritch High School, and it was Franciscan nuns who drove that, and I really think I got a great education there. I didn’t realize how good of an education I got until I got out. But even though I had been working in the arts most of my time, when it came time to go to college, my father said, “You’re not getting a degree in theater. You’re going to get a degree in business,” even though he didn’t know and I didn’t know even what that meant, “And you’re going to go to the local university.” So for me there were no college visits, there was nothing. It was very, very directed.

But I did grow up in a very ethnically diverse neighborhood. So our neighbors next door were Polish, my mother’s Norwegian, my father’s German, my father’s best friend was Hungarian. So there was always a sort of mix that I kind of grew up with that I think has served me well in sort of the diversity space, so that I always relished.

And then I went off after I finished the baccalaureate degree. The deal with my father was that if I finished the degree, I could go off and do whatever I really wanted to do. And so I got offered a really great job in Price Waterhouse making more money than my father was making as a factory worker.

Jay Lemons:

Wow.

Richard Helldobler:

And I decided not to do it, I decided to go off and do some performing. And of course, the roof came off of the house, spun around three times, and came back down when I delivered that message. But he agreed, he said that was the deal. But before I left, he sat me down, he goes, “Here’s the problem.” He goes, “We’ve got a deal, we’re going to handle it, but Rich, you like stuff and you can’t get stuff without a really good paycheck.” And he goes, “So, you go off and do this, but there’s going to come a time when you recognize it,” and he was right. I like stuff, I still do.

So I came back to Toledo with the intent of sort of doing an MBA JD and move into entertainment law. And then I got an offer to choreograph a show at Bowling Green State University, and they offered me a graduate assistantship to do the MA PhD in theater, I think primarily because they knew they would have a built-in choreographer for a couple of years. And I went off and did that. And again, when my father realized I wasn’t going to be a lawyer, that didn’t go over well. But in the end, it sort of worked out. I think that the combination of the business degree, it always surprises people that I understand budgets better than people think because they think PhD in theater, and that I’m more of a fiscal moderate than I think people want to believe. So I think it’s really been that common set of experiences.

But I tell students at orientation every day that when my father and I sat in orientation, if anybody would told us that I would be a university president, we would have gone up and left because we just would have never believed it. But it really is a testimony to the power of education to transform people’s lives. I’m living it every single day. So, I don’t just talk about it, I live it.

Jay Lemons:

You absolutely are, and I can’t help but reflect on our circles have really been entwined around AASCU, and this is at the heart of the AASCU mission. You are living out the promise of new populations that have come to this country and have found this incredible vehicle for social mobility and for living a rich, deep, engaged life as a citizen leader, and thank you for that. And I knew some of that, but I wanted our listeners to hear some of that story too. So, thank you for the willingness to share that.

Let me try and get a little more back on track and mindful of the limits of time. But I want to hear, I feel like I’m on a one person sort of crusade to reclaim the word good in our world, because I think of it not as meaning grade B performance, but as something that has more virtue, high effectiveness, and as a marker of success. And I’d love to hear you reflect for a few minutes on what you think makes a good leader, Rich.

Richard Helldobler:

So I think one of my typical answers around the presidency is, 98% of the presidency is relationships, and the other 98% is the budget, and I really do believe that. I think what has surprised me most about the presidency is I thought when I came to William Paterson, I would be much more external than internal. And I think the larger the institution, the more I think that happens. Right? But I think for regional publics, which is sort of the AASCU profile, so much of it is driven by relationships. And I think that that’s important to sort of think about going forward.

When I arrived at William Paterson, there was a lot of tension between the administration and the union, and there was also not a lot of clarity between the role of the union and the role of faculty senate. And so I spent a lot of time developing those relationships in particular, but also defining what their particular roles were within the context of shared governance. Now, that’s not to imply that you can only be internal, right? Soon after I got here, I also think that as you’re moving from one state to another state, I always try to say to myself, “Well, this is what was crazy about that state. This state can’t be crazier, but it is crazier, but in a different kind of way.” Right? And part of your job as the president is to figure out what kind of crazy that state is.

And so in New Jersey, it was fascinating to me that the way state government works is that it is the relationships and the meetings that happen in the offices of the state legislators, versus what happens in the formal process. And that all boils down to relationships, right?? How often do you go see them? What are you going to see them for? What can you get behind? That it doesn’t directly impact your institution, but will help you forge a relationship to move their agenda forward, as you’re trying to move your own agenda forward. So I think that in particular, understanding that and also how you forge relationships, but also how the other person learns.

I’ve worked with AASCU on the Department Chair Leadership Institute, and one of the things I always try to tell new chairs is, “How does your dean learn? Are they a visual learner? Are they a data geek?” And you have to communicate with them in ways in which they learn. And I think often, we want to communicate in ways in which we want to be communicated with, and that doesn’t always necessarily work out. So I’m always very cognizant of that part of the communication process.

And also I think understanding budgets in particular, and I’ve never met a president ever who has walked into a new presidency and has said, “I completely understood the budget and they were completely truthful with me about the budget when I walked in.” Doesn’t happen, and if it does, I would love to hear about it. And for me, there were significant budget challenges when we walked in the door, and then post COVID, we were facing a $31 million budget deficit, and we had to work very hard to get it down to what is now manageable and almost balanced within four years, which is quite a feat. But it goes back to what I said earlier, the relationships with the union and with the Senate, who both had to make very difficult decisions as part of that process, were willing to do it because we had a relationship with each other, and we had a relationship with our students. So I always encourage people to think about, how do you build those relationships and how do you really understand the budget going forward? Because really, that’s really what makes it tick.

Jay Lemons:

Beautifully said, I really appreciate that. I couldn’t help but think, and you were describing this in the context of the external. It’s true of both, and I don’t mean this in a pejorative way at all, but you are teaching. Betty Siegel, one of our great former leaders, used to talk about, “The president’s classroom is large.” Everywhere you go, you are, you’re helping people to understand and learn about shared governance or to understand the economic impact of having a successful William Paterson with your legislators. If you think about it in the right context, again, this is that creating opportunity out of sometimes hardship and chaos. So you again, I don’t know whether you still think about yourself as a teacher, but I see that in your actions.

Richard Helldobler:

I do get asked that question a lot. Do I miss teaching? And my response is always, I don’t miss the day-to-day grind of a classroom, that I don’t miss. But I’m just teaching in a different way. I’ve stayed close to the fellows program for that reason. I’ve stayed close to AASCU’s department chairs for that reason. LGBTQ leadership, I’ve led their mentoring program, I’ve done that for that reason, because I do really enjoy teaching. It’s just a different way of teaching than being at The Ballet Barre six times a week teaching first position. So, it is a little different.

Jay Lemons:

I want to note for our listeners that I have had the joy of watching you teach in our AALI programs, and thank you for the willingness to do that. I mean, and it is teaching, you don’t have to do the grading. That’s the way I think about it.

Richard Helldobler:

You don’t have to do the grading. You don’t.

Jay Lemons:

It’s also not something you do alone.

Richard Helldobler:

No.

Jay Lemons:

When you’re creating a team, what is it that you’re looking for in the leaders that you surround yourself with?

Richard Helldobler:

Humble, hungry, and smart. Those are three attributes that I look for. And I always use that, I think that cabinets by and large fall into two, to use a sports analogy, which Karen Weaver will love the fact that I used a sports analogy. Are basketball teams are golf teams, right? And the golf team goes out and does what they do and they come back and they add up their scores and they hope that they win. But the basketball team plays offense and defense, they pass the ball back and forth. And so really, when I am looking for someone to be a member of the basketball team here at William Paterson, I’m looking for someone who has that attribute. But I balance that out by saying hungry, because I also want someone who wants to be successful and will be sort of aggressive in that space. And also if they want to be a president, how do I help them get the experiences that they need in order to move on to that position when the time is right?

And I was lucky. I really, by and large, I inherited a very strong cabinet here at William Paterson. I’ve made a couple of changes intentionally, but by and large, people have moved on to different opportunities that we celebrate. But I think by and large, when I’m interviewing, those are sort of the three qualities that I look for, and do I think that they’ll be a good member of the basketball team willing to pass the ball when they need to, willing to take the ball when they need to, and then when to take the shot, even if it’s a little bit risky.

Jay Lemons:

I really appreciate that, and that’s a wonderful metaphor that I think really does speak to the dynamic work that a cabinet has, and it is something more than the very best efforts of each of those individuals. It’s the synergy of the group brought together. Beautiful, thank you.

What’s your advice for new leaders or those who aspire to leadership in the academy?

Richard Helldobler:

Take your vitamins, number one. I think what I would say is, that there has to be an aptitude for what I refer to as squishiness. That there are things that are within your circle of influence but not within your circle of control, and you have to be sort of comfortable in that space.

I think that much of the presidency is about the art of influence and persuasion, versus the perception that it is all about, here’s the decision, now carry it out. And that it is more of a marathon and not a sprint. I always say, I’m always tickled when I read in the Chronicle, a new president says, “We’re going to transform the institution in two to three years,” and nine times out of 10 in year two, you’re reading about a separation, because I think it takes longer than that. And I think you also have to recognize that you may want to take an institution from A to C, but within your tenure you might only get them to B. And if you push them to C, then chances are you’re not going to be there to see them get to C because you will no longer be the president.

I try to tell people, think of it as a rubber band. You can stretch a rubber band and release it, and it gets a little bit bigger. You can stretch it again, it gets a little bit bigger once you release the tension, but if you stretch it too far too quick, it breaks. And once it breaks, you can’t repair it. And so that goes back to what I tell the cabinet, “Nothing new after March.” That’s when we release the rubber band and let people relax a little bit, move into celebration mode, and then in the summer we strategize of what we want to do in the next year to stretch the rubber band a little bit larger, and I think you have to have that aptitude of patience. And patience is not one of my strengths. I’ve had to learn it.

Actually, I have a huge framed sign next to my computer that says “Pause.” And when I’m getting ready to fire off an email or I’m getting ready to try to become the provost or try to become the CFO, I look at that sign and say, “Pause.” And that sign came about because I had a great executive assistant whose desk was on the other side of my wall of my computer when I was a dean. And her name was Judy Andrusky, and she could tell by the stride of my keyboard that she should stick her head around the corner and say, “That should go in the draft box.” So I’ve always kept this sign by my desk that says, “Pause,” to remind me, things can wait for 48 hours and let people sort of figure them out, but it takes patience and it takes consistent messaging, and it takes being a good parent at times. How do you remind people what the goal is?

And I also think it’s important that you help institutions set deadlines and hold them accountable to them. So in the theater, we always say that the curtain goes up at 8:00 on this date and we work backwards, right? But we also know that academics are almost genetically predispositioned to debate everything within an inch of its life. So I don’t do that. I say, “This is the day that I’m going to make a decision. Any process you want to build up to this date that gives you the opportunity for dialogue and input, I’m in. Tell me what that looks like. But here’s the date a decision is being made.” And that I think is helpful to sort of guide institutions.

So I would say those things, patience, help institutions develop deadlines and hold them accountable as well, and be comfortable in the squishiness, because my day changes at the drop of a hat. Right? It could be something happens in the residence hall, someone says something in Trenton and off I have to go. And if you’re not comfortable in that space, I think it’s hard to succeed.

Jay Lemons:

Yeah, absolutely. Amen. Ambiguity is where we live. Thank you, beautiful. What are the most critical challenges facing today’s leaders?

Richard Helldobler:

I think it’s been the successive periods of rapid change within higher ed. I think COVID in particular had put its foot on the pedal around higher ed in ways that we haven’t seen before. And I think some of the changes that are happening at the federal level now, if they come to pass, will impact higher ed.

So you have this dichotomy of what the data says versus what the public perception is. For example, what is the value of a degree? So we all know based on the data that if you get a degree, you’re more likely to earn a million dollars more over your lifetime than someone who doesn’t, you’re more likely to own a home, you’re more likely to contribute to the tax base, all of those things. And yet the public perception is, is it really worth it? And I think the other misnomer in the public perception is that the escalating costs. Where really, when you look at the escalating costs, actually from annual year ’19 to 2025, the cost has decreased about 2.4%. Between 2010 and 2019, it did escalate around 1.9% overall, but I think the problem is, is who pays for it, is the challenge, right?

Jay Lemons:

That’s right.

Richard Helldobler:

So as states have begun to ratchet back the funding for higher education, the student bears more of that cost. Right? So 10 years ago, maybe 20 years ago, in New Jersey, students were paying $0.30 on the dollar for every tuition dollar, and the state was picking up 70%. Now that’s inverted. And the perception around student debt is just fascinating to me, because on average nationally, students graduate with about $27,000 in student debt, on average. Right? I’m not saying there aren’t graduate programs or for-profits or whatever where students accumulate more debt, that does happen. But on average, 27,000, right? And if you think about New Jersey where the last data says the average Latino household is making $27,000, the average black household is making $35,000, and we’re graduating students with baccalaureate degrees into starting salaries of $56,000, the economic opportunity is very apparent. Right?

Jay Lemons:

Yep.

Richard Helldobler:

And the challenge in that population, is that’s the 30% of the population in New Jersey who A, can’t afford to leave, and B, is growing in terms of their demographics. So if you don’t educate that population to increase the tax base, your only option is to increase the 1%, taxes on the 1%. And those are the people who can afford to move to states where it is more tax-friendly. So I think the challenge is sort of in that space is difficult.

Culture wise, I think too, we’re still really focused on the 18-year-old high school student. Luckily here at William Paterson, in the theater we say, “Timing is everything,” and just before COVID, we started WP Online with two programs. The MBA program, which we knew that MBA programs in the face-to-face market were struggling nationally, and nursing, because nursing, there’s a huge shortage. Well, then COVID hit and the faculty adapted to online learning in a way that before they were really resistant. So that provided an opportunity for us to grow our online market in the graduate space and in the adult completer space. So we went from zero to 4,000 students in the graduate space in about four years.

And New Jersey has a contracting 18-year-old market. And in New Jersey, 70% of high school graduates seek post-secondary education. Of that 70%, 70% migrate out. We’re the largest exporter in the state, but there’s 700,000 people in New Jersey who have some college credit but no degree. So how do you tap into that market to provide a very flexible pedagogical construct, make it as easy as is to get across the finish line, but also understand how do you deal with the trauma of people who left college because they weren’t succeeding but now have family and work responsibilities, right? That’s a huge culture shift within the academy who is really focused on that 18-year-old high school student.

I think those are significant sort of cultural challenges, and that’s really what I really credit the faculty leadership at William Paterson, because I think the Senate and the union really demonstrated great leadership in willingly moving into those markets and willingly looking at policies that impeded adult learners, like the transfer policy and academic credit for prior learning. Those kinds of things, which aren’t easy, they were really willing to do it, and that has really paid off for us. But how do you lead that sort of cultural institutional change, I think is one of the largest challenges that I think college presidents will be facing, in addition to I think some of the federal and state funding challenges that we’ll see coming forward.

Jay Lemons:

And I know for certain, not many things, but relationships, 98%, right? It’s got to be bound up and having built relationships over time.

Richard Helldobler:

Yeah, it really is. I actually have an ACE fellow this semester who is doing periodic visits, and during one of our Zoom calls, she said, “You really spend a lot of time with your VPs, and why do you do that?” And I said, “It’s 98% relational.” And one VP came forward with a significant health challenge, and I jumped right on it, and she said, “I’m really surprised that you went that far.” And I said, “Despite anything else, people need to feel that you acknowledge them as humans first. And once you do that, that opens up doors in ways that they will do things for you because they know that you care for them as a human being first.” And I think that really is key.

Jay Lemons:

That brings me back to goodness. Hey, let me move us into a lightning round. I think I could have a very long extended program with you, but I’m mindful that you’re only a couple weeks out from graduation. And so in this lightning round, questions are going to be shorter. You can talk for as long as you want. But Rich, talk about who’s most influenced you.

Richard Helldobler:

I would have to say Chuck Middleton. Chuck was the only out president in 2005, 2006. He was at Roosevelt, and I asked him to go and actually do my placement there, and he said no. And he said no, because he was having a tough budget year and he said, “I would love to bring you, but I can’t.” But luckily, I got to go and visit for a week, and I just kept nudging him that when we were at a meeting together, “Could I buy you a drink? Can we go out for dinner?” And as my questions got better, he really invested a lot of time in me.

And I think he helped me understand how to run an institution, how to navigate a cabinet, but also to have an impact at sort of a national level. Chuck started the group LGBTQ Presence in Higher Education, and then now we have morphed into LGBTQ Leaders in Higher Education, to create a better pipeline of out leadership in higher ed. But he always took the time. Our leadership styles are somewhat different, but he really, I think, shaped how I thought about the presidency and how I thought about a voice sort of at the national level and where to invest my time.

Jay Lemons:

I appreciate that. Chuck, certainly, an extraordinary leader, and you join him. And the world does look very different-

Richard Helldobler:

It does look very different.

Jay Lemons:

… today. There are far more people who are gay and lesbian than poly. We don’t yet have our first transgender president, but I can imagine that day coming.

Richard Helldobler:

It will happen.

Jay Lemons:

And it will happen.

Richard Helldobler:

There’s some really great people in the pipeline at LGBTQ Leaders in Higher Ed. So I’m confident that will happen.

Jay Lemons:

There sure are.

Richard Helldobler:

When the world is ready and we’re going to push the world, but the world, you will get one.

Jay Lemons:

Yeah, no, we will, we will. Is there a book that’s had the greatest influence on you?

Richard Helldobler:

I would say The Dropout Scandal.

Jay Lemons:

Oh, interesting. Excellent. Say why.

Richard Helldobler:

The premise of the book is this, is that institutions know what they need to do in order to make students successful, but they don’t have the political will to do it. And when I read it, I thought, okay, I’m going to have the political will to do it, and if I go down in flames, I go down in flames. So it’s things like, restrict choice for first and second year students, right? Make sure that they’re on the path to graduation. So at William Paterson, we preregister our first year students both in the first semester and the second semester, but our retention rate went from 67% to 74.5% in five years.

Jay Lemons:

Fabulous.

Richard Helldobler:

Right, and I think it’s those kinds of things that if you have the political will to do it, with students in mind, you can get there. And I think that book more than most, really is interesting. But when you read it, you think, oh, a lot of it’s third rail stuff. It’s curriculum. It’s how you rethink financial aid, it’s how you think support services. So for an instance, in every first year class, every 1,000 level class at William Paterson, there has to be one assessment before the first four weeks and faculty have to enter attendance into Blackboard. So the professional staff advisors can go in and look at those pain points and do sort of early intervention.

The other thing we did is we listened to students. Students said they wanted what they call the continuum of care. So they wanted a go-to person. And while in the academy that’s traditionally viewed as faculty, faculty aren’t here between semester breaks and they aren’t here during the summer, they’re off doing other important things. They’re doing research, they’re recharging the batteries, they’re doing that kind of things. So we actually moved from a faculty led advisement system to a professional staff advisor system. So those people are here by and large, 12 months out of the year. That was difficult but the Senate, they helped us think through that model and what role faculty should play in this, right?

Jay Lemons:

Yeah.

Richard Helldobler:

Because we refer to them as faculty mentors, professional staff advisors will never be able to help people think about what elective to take, what the best internship is to take, what is the best job opportunity to take. That’s where faculty can engage. But how to fill out FAFSA or how to get your parking ticket solved, that’s not a good use of faculty time, in my opinion. And I think that has really gone a long way, but those are examples of having the political will to do something to make life better for students. And the data is proving that it’s working. But The Dropout Scandal, if you haven’t read it, look at it.

Jay Lemons:

Excellent, thank you for that suggestion. Do you have a fondest memory of your undergraduate experience?

Richard Helldobler:

Yeah, I was the choreographer for the University of Toledo Rockettes.

Jay Lemons:

Whoa.

Richard Helldobler:

And so that was sort of my first big thing of having to churn out something choreographically every couple of weeks. It was working with 24 women, some of whom I’m still connected to today, but then working with the music department and working sort of across sectors within the institute. Working with athletics because the Rockettes danced at basketball games. So that was probably one of my most fond memories from my undergraduate experience, which has nothing to do with business, but yet is my fondest memory.

Jay Lemons:

I love it, I love it. Hey, if you hadn’t worked in higher ed, what would you have done?

Richard Helldobler:

I think I probably would have done entertainment law. At one point I thought about, do I go back and retool and become a lawyer? Someone convinced me that it was about billable hours and I didn’t want to do that, but I still find collective bargaining fascinating. I had that one stint in West Virginia that was non-collective bargaining, and I prefer collective bargaining environments because I think it’s great that the good news is the rules are spelled out, the bad news is the rules are spelled out. And I think that’s better than people just going in and making stuff up, by and large. So I think it would be in law.

Jay Lemons:

Love it. Well, I want to ask you one last question. Part of what holds these places together and binds generations as bound up in ritual and tradition. And wonder if there’s a favorite at someplace that you’ve either attended or served, that you love that tradition?

Richard Helldobler:

I think one of my favorites was the induction of Mcmurran scholars at Shepherd. These were highly academically performing students, and there was a whole ritual around hooding them and robing them. And these students were by and large from Appalachia, and it had such symbolic meaning for the campus and such symbolic meaning for the students that I as the provost just look forward to that every year. And I hope they’re still doing it.

Jay Lemons:

Beautiful. Well, one of our traditions here on Leaders on Leadership is, we like to close by really asking our guests, Rich, to share, if you will, the distinctive qualities or the organizational DNA, the secret sauce that makes William Paterson a place so very special to you and to those you serve.

Richard Helldobler:

I think for me, it’s a population of students that I’ve always cared about. And when I interviewed here, it was interesting because as I alluded to earlier, the retention rates weren’t great. And I was asked in the open forum if I would consider bringing them better students. And my reply was, “I think you have great students. We just haven’t figured out how to educate them yet.” And now we have figured it out, now we have figured it out. And that took the institution changing, not the students changing, and they’ve done it. And I really believe, like I said, over 60% of our students are students of color, over 40% are Pell eligible. So when you’re really sort of delivering on America’s promise of the baccalaureate degree for economic and social mobility, every time one of them goes across the stage, it’s, another one, there’s another one, there’s another one.

And I think the other thing I would say about William Paterson that I just love and I haven’t found at any other place that I’ve been at, is that it just has a common sense about it. Faculty and staff and students, they know what their deal breakers are, but they also know how to get to the middle. And that I have appreciated in faculty leadership, staff leadership, and student leadership. And it has not happened at any other place that I have been at, and I value that every single day. And I would say it’s even true of the board of trustees. There’s just a common sense about, okay, we really want to be here, but this is where we’re going to be today. It moves the needle, so let’s get to there. Let’s agree to, that’s where we’re going to go. And I think I have truly relished that quality about this place every single day.

Jay Lemons:

That’s a wonderful quality. That sort of, there’s an idealistic quality that’s mixed with pragmatism there that helps you to move the needle. Amen to that.

Well, Rich, I want to just say thank you so much for joining us. It’s fun to have this time together with you and to hear your insights and your wisdom about leadership within the academy. So, thank you.

Richard Helldobler:

Thanks, Jay. It was delightful to chat with you this afternoon.

Jay Lemons:

Listeners, we welcome your suggestions and thoughts for leaders we might feature in upcoming segments. You can send those to leadershippodcast@academicsearch.org. You can find our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you find podcasts. It’s also available on the Academic Search website. Leaders on Leadership is brought to you by Academic Search and the American Academic Leadership Institute. Together, our mission is to support colleges and universities during times of transition and through leadership development activities that serve current and future generations of leaders in the academy. Again, it’s been a really special pleasure to have Dr. Rich Helldobler on our show today. Rich, a final word from you.

Richard Helldobler:

Thanks, Jay. And to all of those of you who are thinking about a presidency, I would just say there’s great joy and great opportunity, along with some significant challenges, but I wouldn’t trade it for anything that I’ve done in my life.

Jay Lemons:

Listeners, that’s a great place for us to wrap. Thanks for joining us.